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Talk:Griffon Rider (3.5e Prestige Class)
Prerequisites and Notes you can qualify for this class at 17th level. that alone makes it not so good. i think the pre reqs needs to be nerfed--NameViolation 22:03, April 18, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, the skill rank prerequisites are silly, unless it just means the skill modifier, which would be sillier. Also, note that the page title is correct and all reference to the DnD magical beast should be spelled griffon within the article (as is currently not the case, mysteriously). --Ganteka Future 23:20, April 18, 2010 (UTC) ::Hehe, i will fix the error with griffon its just my computer for some odd reason is registering it as an incorrect spelling and is auto-correcting it, which i will fix now. I also made the requirements somewhat lessened, and I added in one more bit of detail for paladins or blackguards who become griffin riders as well. - Vestrione Seshione 00:14, April 19, 2010 (UTC) :::all done with everything, let me know the verdict. - Vestrione Seshione 00:39, April 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::I had a little talk with some of my friends and found a couple of small edits. First the momentous cleave attack should gain damage for extra height on the attack instead of a bonus to the attack, as it would hit the enemy harder but it wouldn't improve the chances of a hit. Second, the Griffon Rider's Griffon requires more dexterity for its combat maneuvers, so the Strength adjustment was changed to a dexterity adjustment. The last edit was clarification on the Griffon's feat progression, because the griffon can gain feats as well, which allows for more flexibility in the griffon for the player to mess with. Vestrione Seshione 23:00, April 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::The Momentous Cleave ability is a little messy as written. You might want to separate it into two abilities, Cleave and Charge, so you can make clear what rules go where. In addition, there is no weapon I'm aware of, including natural attacks, with a critical multiplier of less then x2, so the line about critical multipliers is unnecessary. You might also have it require a DC 20 ride check, where failure negates the attack and failure by 5 or more causes a fall for the griffon. Aerial Sneak Attack, as written, is EXACTLY like rogue sneak-attack - is this intentional, or is some aerial component meant to apply? I don't know if a rider and his mount automatically flank, but you might want to just replace this ability with a synergistic damage bonus when both creatures attack the same target in a round. Hive Mind is an odd name; you might try something with Bond in it instead. - Viatos 03:19, April 20, 2010 (UTC) Balance What makes this fit the rogue-level of balance? Could you provide an SGT? Say, level 15, since the first level you could take this class is level 10? --Ghostwheel 03:46, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :Okay, for the balance I chose rogue because during the discussions i had on the class with my friends it turns out that when placed in combination with a class like paladin, the griffon rider excels in attack capability and can even surpass monsters of equivalent CR due to the power stacking capabilities for his mount. It can be difficult to pull off, but when used with appropriate tactics the griffon rider can be quite devastating. Tactically, the griffon rider also has great advantage over fighters and other land-based classes. A fully developed griffon rider will eventually be able to strike a fighter type character of equivalent CR without him even having a chance of fighting back, which definitively makes the class stronger than fighter type. (EXAMPLE: A griffon rider using a bow can have on his turn the griffon do a spring attack just into range for him to shoot the fighter and then spring out again so the fighter cannot even take a shot. Also, the ability to fly also puts it at an advantage above any classes of fighter level or lower.) As for the clarifications, I will get those in order right now. I understand the confusion on it, and I will also clarify aerial sneak attacks. :: By the level that one can enter this class, just about any character can buy a griffon, a pegasus, or in some cases, a dragon to ride. Monsters at that level also often have some way of attacking characters at range; mind doing a level 15 SGT on it? --Ghostwheel 23:46, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :::Holy cow, that would be a mess of an effort! Gaging from how the rules on an SGT are explained, do you want me to test it with just the class or the more advanced version as the full character? Either way, it will take me several hours to test the shell(15 levels in griffon rider, ignoring the entry requirements) or the fully developed character with the preferred startup combo. (Lvl 10 paladin then the 5 ranks in griffon rider) Vestrione Seshione 00:22, April 21, 2010 (UTC)